How MASTER Wes & dave developed into MASTER & slave

 

Writer Dean Walradt asked these questions to some Daddy/boy and MASTER/slave couples for an article he was working on for International Leatherman magazine. Answering them provided a written recap of our relationship.
  1. Who makes up your "family"? Are you a couple with a boy, more than one boy, do you have slaves as well And what are the living arrangements -- all under one roof, separate dwellings, 24/7 or just weekends, etc.

    Our family includes my lover of 7 years and my slave, who is a new addition to the family. slave currently lives in San Francisco but makes it to Houston about twice a month. We are blessed with a garage apartment which serves as slave quarters (and also has our dungeon).

  2. How did you meet. Where, when, how - all the gritty details. What drew your attention to each other. Who approached whom. How did whom approach whom?

    We met at the 15 Association party September 27, 1997, during Folsom Street Fair. dave saw me working someone over using electricity. he was intrigued -- wanting to Top someone using similar gear -- and came up afterward. he asked if I'd explain to him what I had used. I told him I'd be happy to, but that I was tired. I gave him my card and told him to send me an e-mail. It wasn't until about two weeks later that he came across my card again and actually wrote. I answered dave's electrical questions, and we continued corresponding as friends.

    During this same time, my lover Tom had gone back to school. With his study requirements, I found myself lonely for companionship. I realized this and took it up with him. "I am needing more attention than I am getting right now. I think taking on a leather boy would help." He agreed.

    By January, I had taken on a leather friend of 5 years as my boy. I published this on the Internet. Questions came in. Responding to the questions helped me write out what I felt a leather Daddy/boy relationship should be.

    Over the next months, my experience with my boy led me to realize that I was needing a deeper level of submission than I was previously aware. We ended the Daddy/boy aspect April 9th but remained friends.

    During March, slave david stein started posting installments of a chastity story on the gay/lesbian alt.sex.bondage list hosted by www.queernet.org. [To find: Sign up / log-in / search for "gl-asb" WAY down toward the bottom in the ADULT section. As of 2009 the list appears inactive.] dave found it quite hot and asked if I'd be interested in reading it. I was. The story was an erotic power exchange. dave enjoyed it for the submission. I enjoyed it for the dominance. Thus we were introduced to something that turned us both on. Shortly after, dave and I began using D/s Capitalization Conventions when corresponding as leather buds, and without D/s Capitalization Conventions when corresponding as friends.

    April 24th I flew to San Francisco to help my former boy move. dave knew I was coming and asked (April 13) "If there's any way i can be of service to You or david during Your visit, please let me know and i will try my best." I wrote back that yes, there was something he could do: dave could pick me up at the airport and drive me to my hotel to drop off my bags. Then I'd treat him to dinner.

    So dave was standing there waiting for me when I got off my plane. From our e-mail correspondence, I knew that dave had just had his home painted and was very happy about it. I told him to swing by his place so that I could see how it turned out.

    While we were there and I was getting the tour, we stopped in his office / workout room for a while. I don't know why, but I started to tickle dave. And delightful squeals came out! We took off our shirts and went into the bedroom, where I must have tickled him -- pinned down under me -- for another 20 minutes. All the while I heard these delightful squeals. When I was done, I asked if he'd enjoyed the tickling. his response was telling: "No. i enjoyed submitting to You." Then dave asked if he could kiss my boots.

    Now I've had men kiss my boots before. It is a wonderful gesture of respect and submission, but it had never done anything for me sexually. I sat on the foot of the bed with my booted feet on the floor and gave dave permission. he prostrated himself at my boots, wrapped both hands around a boot, and proceeded to give me the most passionate boot licking I've ever had. I could feel the hungry press of his tongue through the boot leather as he worked up the sides. he also paid full attention to the seams and sole of the boot.

    Then he did the other.

    The intensity and emotion took my breath away.

    I was stunned in a wonderful way.

    dave sent me a thank-you note when I returned to Houston. In it he also asked: "i am trying to figure out how to sign my notes to You. "Warmly," "affectionately" or "fondly" sounds too impersonal. "Hugs" is already taken! "Cheers" is too e-mail geeky. "Love" is how i usually sign notes to my friends but i don't want You to take it the wrong way. Any ideas, Sir? i'm looking for both warmth and respectful tone in my sign off." To which I responded "On my knees at Your boots" has a nice warm ring to it..."

    May 5, I got a note that contained the line "Sir, might i be so bold to suggest a short scene to try this chastity thing [from the online story] out?" To which I responded "It starts right now as you are reading this." A few days later, on May 8, I got a note that included "i noticed in Your last two e-mails You have addressed me as "slaveboy dave" and "my slaveboy", SIR. And it feels like You are being more directive towards me lately on several things, such as following respect protocol and giving me the chastity order, SIR. Am i just imagining these nuances, SIR? do You think it would be a good idea for me to take a look at Your petition to serve as Your boy, SIR?" I told him I'd be pleased to receive a petition from him, but first I needed to incorporate into it what I had learned from my recent Daddy/boy experience. I revised my writings detailing what I was looking for. I posted my revised PETITION TO SERVE TOPDAD WES as His leather boy on the Web and dave started filling it out.

    My lover heard one reading of my revised expectations and said "You're not looking for a boy. You're looking for a slave." He was right. I sent dave a note telling him I thought he might have what it takes to be a slave, and that I'd prefer to receive a petition from him to be my slave if it was in his heart to serve.

    dave was both excited and scared by this change of tone. This led to clarifying what we each meant by the term "slave"

    if the protocol toward me is not different, how is the relationship
    itself different with "the next level of submission"?
    [from your other message]
    > "boy dave" felt nicer, warmer, fuzzier, cuddlier, and easier, SIR.
    > "slave dave" felt meaner, nastier, kinkier, and more difficult, SIR.
    > "slave dave" felt more challenging but perhaps ultimately more rewarding, SIR.
    > When i think about my early experiences in S/M and early S/M J/O fantasies, being a slave always came up, SIR. Being a boy didn't occur to me until i had heard about it, SIR.

    I think you largely hit it on the mark.
    I must point out the unspoken obvious as well:
    A slave is its Master's property. This means, too, that everything formerly "yours" would now be considered as "mine."
    That extra level of submission goes a long way.
    At the same time, however, a Master is responsible for His slave. In practical terms, this means that I will probably have you manage my "California affairs" as you did before. In that way, I will be looking after your future. 

    > slave submission sounds and feels edgier than boy
> submission to me, SIR. 
you bet.
But does there have to be any less love & affection? 
No way.


May 14
> Does a slave have limits, SIR?
> 
> For instance, would You consider it within Your rights as my 
> Master to order
> me to move to Houston, SIR? To leave my job, SIR? To sign the 
> title of my
> condo over to You, SIR? To tell my Mom i am Your slave, SIR?

A slave gives his Master the ultimate gift:  absolute submission.
[2003:  I would change the above to "absolute obedience".]
Are there any limits on "absolute"?
No.

So would I consider it within my _rights_ to:
1) order you to move to Houston
2) leave your job
3) sign the title of the condo over to me
4) tell your mother that you are my slave
Absolutely.

Would I actually _issue_ any of these orders?
Not as I see things today.

    As your Master, I have a responsibility for your care and well being. How you are currently situated in San Francisco -- with the job, friends and the home -- seems to support your care and well being. Having a good relationship with your mother supports your care and well being.

    If over time we developed in such a way where it was more rewarding to us for you to be based in Houston, or your employer began to abuse you, those would be different situations.

    Would the condo in SFO remain? Most likely. As it stands, I have provided for Tom should I die. And vice-versa. Keeping the condo situation as it is appears to be the best way to ensure your future as well.

    I had addressed his main fears. The rest was a leap of faith. I changed the existing boy petition that he'd been working on to be a slave petition. dave worked hours and hours and hours on it, presenting me with the final version in a black binder on his knees at my boots at Houston's Bush Intercontinental Airport on May 17. I liked what I read, and took him on in-training for a two month period.

  3. How is the relationship different when you all are in private versus public?

    In public, slave still wears my collar and ends every sentence to me with "SIR". For the business world, I change him into a sterling silver necklace that we use as a symbolic collar before I send him out of town.

  4. Along the same line is what do you as Daddies look for in potential boys. What triggers you to write them off, what triggers you to build an interest in them?

    • Snapping to attention is a turn-on.
    • Being the utmost in polite is helpful.
    • Drunks are out.

  5. boys I'd like some feedback to as to what attracted you first to your Daddy. His appearance, his demeanor, his looks, his community involvements?

    [slave] Here's my answer to the question, SIR:

    my answer is a little unusual. Although i was physically attracted to Master upon our first meeting, i was simply looking for information about electrical play from Him. i saw Him as another top. As i got to know Him better and better through our e-mail correspondence, i really enjoyed the person i was getting to know on the other side of cyberspace: an articulate, sensitive, spiritual, dominant leatherman.

    i got together with Master for the first time at IML in May, 1998. i went with great trepidation about spending six days and nights with a man i had never spent any time with before. After a couple of days, i felt incredibly drawn to my new Master and knew i had found someone special.

  6. I'd like to hear why each of you are into the Daddy/boy relationship: Why it makes you tick and how you got interested in it.

    [Me] I actually got into it from the back door. I had always wanted a big, handsome, leather daddy. Over time, I became that man.

    [slave] Here's my answer to the question, SIR:

    i love being sexually submissive. From the first time i heard about S/M, i have always dreamed about being on the "M" side of an S/M relationship. Nearly every sexual fantasy i have had for the last 15 years has involved domination and submission. Over time, i have had several medium term (2-3 months) involvements, as well as numerous play sessions both as bottom and top. But this is my most serious so far.

    Why it makes me tick: i enjoy spending time with my Master, serving Him on different levels, and submitting sexually to Him. i love Him and His partner Tom.

  7. If this is a multi-member family (a couple with one or more boys, a slave, etc.) detail some of the interaction and various details of each relationship, how they differ and how they intertwine.

    We have a multi-member family, but not a multi-submissive family.
    Basically my lover and slave interact as friends.
    They are very fond of each other.

  8. What are some of the rules for the boy(s) and "outside" behavior such as sexual, SM, and so on.

    I started out fairly open on this due to our distance, but very quickly recognized that I did not want to share my slave with anyone.

  9. What is a particular great aspect of the relationship for each and maybe what is some of the hassles if there are any.

    great: communication
    hassles: distance; concerns about my lover not getting his needs met

    [slave] Here's my answer, SIR

    great: love. i never expected to find love in an S/M relationship.
    hassles: Fear. This kind of relationship is so different from the societal norm, and i often feel afraid.

  10. Sum up the relationship. How it works and why. Where you would like it to go.

    It works because we're honest and because we commit the energy to it.

    I would like slave living in Houston, but I need some questions answered before committing all three of us to such a major change. Our next stage could be to temporarily move slave to Houston and have him live in the slave quarters to see how it works as a 24/7/365. In particular, I need to learn how slave's increased presence would impact my lover.

    [slave] Here's my answer to the question, SIR:

    How and why it works: we both put a lot of effort into making it work. i am required to write Master when i am not in Houston at a minimum every morning and every evening unless there are circumstances that make that impossible. The writing takes a lot of time. i sometimes have additional writing assignments, such as summarizing the events of a particular day. i find that i devote at least an hour a day, and usually more, communicating with Master when i am away. When i am in Houston, i am pretty much at His beck and call. Master spends a large amount of time writing me e-mail when i am away, and a lot of time watching out for my care and well being both when i am away and when i am in Houston.

    Where i would like it to go: i'll leave that to my Master to decide, as i have agreed to absolute submission to Him. For me, this relationship is about accepting with all my being that He is an honorable and trustworthy Master, and learning to turn my will and my life over to Him to the best of my ability.

 

 

The change from boy to slave, for our family history

May 10:
[dave]
i notice that You have been addressing me as "slave dave" or "slaveboy dave" sometimes lately, SIR.

(boy dave's dick starts dripping again after typing this, SIR.)

Could i ask for a clarification about this, SIR? What is the difference between the two as You see it, SIR?

May 11:
[Wes]
Depending on the people involved, the difference between Daddy/boy and MASTER/slave can be a matter of semantics or it can be a huge gulf.

As a general statement, a boy retains some rights but a slave gives up all rights. Also, the latter relationship usually takes a contractual form, and the former does not.

In my particular case, I seek such a level of submission that "boy" vs. "slave" is almost semantical.

May 12
[Wes]
In the e-mails of today, I realize that I have been unclear on one point. I would very much entertain a petition from you to be my _boy_. But, I had started calling you "slave dave" because I think you may have what it takes to be a slave. If the truth be known, I would prefer to receive a petition from you to be my _slave_. The petition would be the same, just with "boy" crossed through and "slave" neatly printed to its side. As I wrote yesterday, with me it is _almost_ a matter of semantics. But not quite.

IF you have not already jizzed your nuts off by the time you read this, AND you want to be my slave instead of my boy, THEN do not cum until we have some time together in person.

May 13
[Wes]
Dear prospective slave dave,

(Pondering how to refer to you in this period before I receive, look over and decide on your petition.) 

> >>I really need to know your honest preference for boy-dom or 
> >>slave-dom.

> Thank You for the choice, SIR.
> "boy" really resounds with me because it oozes with 
> tenderness, SIR. For the
> last month i have really wanted to call You "Dad" or "Daddy," SIR.
> "slave" sounds more difficult, SIR. it has a hard edge to it, 
> SIR. It scares me, SIR. A lot, SIR.
> i want to be Your slave, SIR.

Wow! There is a mass of conflicting emotions there. I am concerned that you chose "slave" vs. "boy" because that is what I would like from you, and not because it is what you are seeking. I suspect we'll address this more when I get to your other message that has questions about what the difference is.

××××ØØØØ 

> i have not had any misgivings since writing You in response
> to Your "boy"
> vs. "slave" question last night, SIR. i was surprised by Your
> question and
> by the new chastity order, and am getting adjusted to the
> change, but i
> don't have any regrets about how i answered You, SIR.
>
> But i would like a little more information, SIR:
>
> >>In my particular case, I seek such a level of submission
> >>that "boy" vs. "slave" is almost semantical.
>
> What does the "almost" mean for You, SIR?

An excellent question. In seeing my answer, I recognize that it is not fully clear. My lack of specifity means it is not too late for you to choose boy vs. slave if the added clarity changes your opinion of the two.

"boy" vs. "slave" IS semantical in terms of _protocol_ toward me. And it is close in terms of submission. But "close only counts with handgrenades and horseshoes." That extra level of submission actually means quite a bit.

Our talks about the differences in terminology prompted me to add Master/slave to the definitions section of the Daddy/boy page:

So if the protocol toward me is not different, how is the relationship itself different with "the next level of submission"?

[from your other message]
> "boy dave" felt nicer, warmer, fuzzier, cuddlier, and easier, SIR.
> "slave dave" felt meaner, nastier, kinkier, and more difficult, SIR.
> "slave dave" felt more challenging but perhaps ultimately more rewarding, SIR.
> When i think about my early experiences in S/M and early S/M J/O fantasies, being a slave always came up, SIR. Being a boy didn't occur to me until i had heard about it, SIR.

I think you largely hit it on the mark.
I must point out the unspoken obvious as well:
A slave is its Master's property. This means, too, that everything formerly "yours" would now be considered as "mine."
That extra level of submission goes a long way.
At the same time, however, a Master is responsible for His slave. In practical terms, this means that I will probably have you manage my "California affairs" as you did before. In that way, I will be looking after your future.
> slave submission sounds and feels edgier than boy
> submission to me, SIR.
you bet.
But does there have to be any less love & affection?
No way.

May 14
[Wes responding to dave]

> Does a slave have limits, SIR?
> 
> For instance, would You consider it within Your rights as my 
> Master to order
> me to move to Houston, SIR? To leave my job, SIR? To sign the 
> title of my
> condo over to You, SIR? To tell my Mom i am Your slave, SIR?

A slave gives his Master the ultimate gift: absolute submission. Are there any limits on "absolute"? No.

So would I consider it within my _rights_ to:

  1. order you to move to Houston
  2. leave your job
  3. sign the title of the condo over to me
  4. tell your mother that you are my slave
Absolutely.

Would I actually _issue_ any of these orders? Not as I see things today.

As your Master, I have a responsibility for your care and well being. How you are currently situated in San Francisco -- with the job, friends and the home -- seems to support your care and well being. Having a good relationship with your mother supports your care and well being.

If over time we developed in such a way where it was more rewarding to us for you to be based in Houston, or your employer began to abuse you, those would be different situations.

Would the condo in SFO remain? Most likely. As it stands, I have provided for Tom should I die. And vice-versa. Keeping the condo situation as it is appears to be the best way to ensure your future as well.

 

 

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